Les Snead on Risk, Decisions, and Football

Les Snead: Jacked to be here, Russ.

Les Snead: I feel like an outcast though, compared to–

Les Snead: your normal guest, right? I love listening to your podcast, but when you’re in sports, you’re like, ‘Wait a minute, we’re not gonna’–I definitely can’t discuss AI with you.

Les Snead: I get asked that question a lot. It’s hard to answer. We’ll spend a few minutes on it and we will start at a macro[?] level. But, to answer your second question first, generally speaking, the general manager job is very similar to other ones. At the end of the day, it’s become probably as specific as being responsible for how good an NFL team we have. Then it’s an element of selecting the players, the coaches, the people that are a part of the ecosystem, the collective, and trying to build as competent a collective as possible. Now with that being said, each team based on ownership, things like that, general managers may get asked to do [?].

At a macro level, I have to write this down, Russ, and then we can really get into details, because depending on the calendar year, your day may be different. There’s some micro elements to it. But, number one thing I think a general manager, especially us, that I feel responsible for, is partnering with our ownership, our executive leadership, and our head coach to engineer our vision. So, if we did one thing during the day, it would keep, let’s call it that group aligned.

Now with that being said, there’s a lot of people involved in a football organization. So, one of the key elements is listening to everyone and utilizing their insight, their knowledge, their wisdom in helping apply that to the Rams to give us an edge.

Definitely being a part of making sure that our systems and processes allow our people to be experts in something and experts in specific missions at specific moments. At the end of the day, you got to help engineer that culture of where there is an element of specificity, focus, alignment.

Symbiosis is really important. We have to work together in harmony. You got to be adaptable, innovative, range, and current. So, that’s at the macro level; and you’re, like, ‘Okay, that sounds like non fun.’

So, here’s a good example that has just come up this week. We have a team nutritionist that basically helps our players be better on Sundays, but it’s still a year-round job with diet. He has since gotten an opportunity to go in the private sector, and it’s an opportunity he can’t pass up.

So, out of the blue in May after the draft, we had to find a new team nutritionist. So, at the end of the day, as a general manager, I’m not a micromanager, but I’m a micro-aware of, ‘Okay, wait a minute, that wasn’t on the calendar. We need to focus on that.’ And, oh, by the way, I don’t have enough expertise to find our best team nutritionist. So, I have to work with our athletic performance director. We’ll engineer a team to go on a search and we’ll try to find the best nutritionist we can to replace Joey who’s leaving us. So, that’s a little bit how our day goes, but I know you can probably ask some questions, too.

Les Snead: You’re going to find this interesting, and you alluded to it. The team is basically set. We’ve made our cuts. So, September, October, November, December, and into January is actually a very peaceful time for GM other than the ebbs and flows of the emotions of whether we succeeded on a Sunday, Monday, Thursday, or not. Maybe let’s call it the natural attrition of injuries and things and how do you replace that? So, at the micro level, I’m probably each week coming in on a Monday and going, ‘All right. Is there any major issues that need to be addressed?’ Most of the time, there is not. It’s very routine. You played a game on Sunday; and on Monday, you’re doing an after-action review. On Tuesday, our coaching staff will then begin prepping for the next game, and Wednesday.

So, what I do is spend a lot of that time preparing for the draft. And by that, I’m watching–because at the end of the day, the players we will draft are playing college football that time of year. Because the calendar is pretty regimented–everyone knows what they’re doing on Monday, Tuesday–that is a really, really good time for me to focus on that April thesis I call it. The nice thing about the NFL draft is there’s a set date. There’s a date we’re going to have to turn in our thesis, present our thesis to–whatever it is. So, the hard part is being disciplined to prepare for that.

Les Snead: Every minute live; and then we come in on Monday and often on Sunday night after the game, especially when you travel and you’re on an airplane traveling. For some fans, we play a game. Even if we play on Sunday night football, the NBC [National Broadcasting Company] telecast Sunday night football. Let’s say we’re in New York and that game ends at 11:00 Eastern Time. Well, probably somewhere around 2:00 AM Eastern, we’re going to get on a charter plane and fly back west. Point being is: oftentimes, you’re going to now watch that game and you’re going to rewind it back and forth and somewhat evaluate how each player did. And our coaching staff will even evaluate how they executed the tactic that was called on that particular play.

Les Snead: Yeah. So, I’ll give you a difference between general manager and coach. A coach is going to be very specific and really try to evaluate how that player did that particular day. Did that player execute his assignments? Then, oh, by the way, if he didn’t, is there correctable moments? So, where a general manager, I’m more–let’s just think your kid is playing Little League Baseball for the first time. There’s an element to the general manager’s job where–let’s say you have a son and he runs out and he plays third base. He’s playing his first Little League game and there’s going to be obviously some spilled milk and then there’s going to be some, maybe, let’s call it, huggable moments, where you can pat him on the back and say, ‘Good job.’

So, there’s an element to the GM as you’re trying to see the vision: is that player actually progressing? Is he or she–I mean with us, it’s he. Is he evolving? You’re looking at, ‘Okay, maybe, this was his first game, but where is that player going to be Week 8, Week 16, Year 2, Year 3?’ But, the coach is: ‘Okay, we asked this player to do these four key critical things this particular game. He did three of four. How do we actually get him to do that fourth one the next week?’ So, there’s a difference between coaching and GMing. Coaching is a little more microscopic.

Les Snead: GM is telescopic.

Les Snead: You’ll appreciate this, and I’ll steal from you that there is an element that is definitely a wild problem per se. So, I will say this, Russ: going into it, I will remind myself that at the end of the day, this is an adventure; and there’s not many jobs that you can show up to work, let’s just call it a Sunday, and know that in those three hours, wow, is your heart rate going to be–there’s going to be an element of adrenaline that not many, let’s call it, jobs or experiences on the planet gives you in those three hours.

Now, again, that’s going into it. When the three hours occur, there’s going to be moments where I will yell. I’ll try to be calm.

But, as an example, Russ, I can tell you we were fortunate enough to win the Super Bowl–not this past year, but the previous year, Super Bowl LVI. I can tell you that last drive where we were driving to–we were down, so we were going to win or lose the game. Ultimately, we scored and we were going to have to stop them to either win or not go into overtime. But, let’s take the offensive drive, where it started, where we went forward on a fourth down. I’m not sure that my body has ever experienced, let’s call it, that amount of adrenaline, because I do know post-game, you would think that it’s one of the more fulfilling celebrations of your life. But I did have an excruciating headache the rest of the night. And guess what? I would sign up for that headache many more times.

But, I do know on that drive, if you were to ask our owner, our colleagues, they would tell you that, ‘Wow, he did not handle that stress or pressure well,’ because I was basically curled up in a ball and letting Sean and the team do their thing.

I think it’s interesting, because you know–in that moment–I’ve always said, it’s like skiing for the gold medal. You’re only going to get so many opportunities to, let’s call it, be one of 32 to win that Super Bowl. A couple years before, we had lost that Super Bowl. So, it’s like: Oh, you’re skiing for the gold medal and you end up with the silver. And you’re, like: I think the silver is supposed to be a really fulfilling moment in your life, but wow, is it one of the more depressing moments in your life.

Les Snead: I got two stories for you, Russ, to probably complete that question. So, let’s go back to the Super Bowl. In that Super Bowl, Odell Beckham Jr. [OBJ] was with us and he had injured his knee. Knowing we already had an injury to Robert Woods, Tyler Higbee, our starting tight end, were out. So, end of the day, our offensive skill players had taken on some attrition throughout the year. And, knowing that OBJ going out was going to affect our second half, we were going to be a less potent offense.

But, OBJ in that moment really came to us to win it all. So, he was having a personal moment in the locker room where he was devastated. And, our athletic trainer–he’s our director of athletic performance–he needed to go back out to the game. OBJ was really struggling. I said, ‘You know what? Reg, you run back out to the game. Send one of your assistant trainers in. I’ll hang with Odell during these moments.’

So, I did. I get back up–I sit with our owner–so I get back up to the owner’s suite. And, in that moment, Cincinnati has already, on the first play of the second half, thrown a deep ball touchdown; and we have just thrown an interception. And, Cincinnati got the ball. Point being: by the time I get up, Cincinnati scored 10 points that I didn’t see. We’re down. And I’m like, ‘Wow, I was not expecting this.’ And from that moment, I was on edge.

But, going back to the Annie Duke question, I’ve always found this somewhat–I guess you’d call it amusing–is: If you compared our Super Bowl ring–so, that is probably the idol that you get, the trophy that you get–to let’s call it NFC [National Football Conference] Championship–go-to-the-Super-Bowl-and-lose ring–I mean it is laughable, the size of the winning ring to, we call it, ‘the losing ring.’ It’s like coach-speak. It’s like, ‘You know what? Don’t spend anything on the losing ring. That’s a losing ring. You want to win.’

And I’ve often said: You spend however many years in football. Even if you–Let’s take Bill Belichick and the Patriots. They’ve won a lot of Super Bowls, but probably the two, three, or four they lost, that’s still 10 of their best years.

So, in our case, that’s going to be one of the moments when we are sitting around telling stories. Losing the Super Bowl is going to be probably one of the better moments in your sports timeline. But, why[?wow?] do we treat it like the redheaded stepchild per se?

Les Snead: You know what? The answer is yes, because it was the–going back to you say–What’s the job description of a GM? In that moment, it was definitely the right thing to do and you just have intuition that that was your responsibility. And also just as probably a human being.

And the neat thing is you try to synthesize a lot of things as like, ‘Okay, this is a big moment for Odell Beckham Jr.’ It’s also a big moment for Les Snead personally; but, oh, by the way, I am into my 50s. I do have some wisdom experiences that he doesn’t. And you try to synthesize in those moments that: ‘You know what, at the end of the day, whether we win or lose this game, there’s definitely going to be some extreme emotions of fulfillment, disappointment, regret–whatever the case may be.’

But, you’re only going to get that moment–right?–with another human being who is maybe taking it tougher than you are, because, guess what? He was actually on the front lines, in the front lines making a difference in whether the Los Angeles Rams are going to win that Super Bowl or not. So, in that moment, the answer is yes.

And maybe it’s good I didn’t see Cincinnati go on a 10-0 run.

Les Snead: Yeah. I come up and I’m like, ‘What in–?’ And the Team President said, ‘You just don’t want to know.’

Les Snead: You know, I did see that clip.

Les Snead: Yeah, I thought it was a–that’s a quote that I think if we were teaching a class, you probably could start with that quote. And, I can understand what he was trying to articulate, that at the end of the day–and again, it gets into macro and micro moments–at a macro level, the Bucks have been a really good team. At a macro level, they were, I’m assuming, at least first in the East. I’m not sure they were first overall. So, that’s not a failing season. But then at the micro level, there is, ‘Wait a minute. You were first and you didn’t take advantage of it.’ So, you’re always in sports psychologically because the emotions are so strong–and even for the fans, we feel it as well.

You’re definitely having to synthesize wisdom from outside of football. With sports psychologists, psychologists, is: how do you deal with, okay, day-to-day life as a father, as a husband, even as just a GM: ‘Okay, we’re not failing‘? We may even be having a loss in a season, but you’re actually being productive. You’re actually progressing while we are failing. That’s a tough way to live and wake up every day.

Les Snead: It definitely does. I think it’s one of those where even when you started in football at the bottom level, entry level, when your playing career is over, it’s interesting, right? Eventually, if you’re fortunate enough to play college football, somebody is going to tell you you’re not good enough. So, even when you’re growing up–hey, if you’re a professor and you’re not necessarily dean or president of the school yet, you’re definitely observing, let’s call it, other GMs. But, I think the key–I’ll bullet down to this–is: it’s affected the decision-making tremendously, because when you get a job to where there’s 1 of 32–and going back, I simply said many times: Just don’t be scared. At the end of the day, make that an adventure.

There’s a chance we’re successful, but also, there’s plenty of big data that says you’re not going to be successful. Time will tell. Make it an adventure, enjoy the moments. But at the end of the day, don’t be scared to try your darnedest to be 1 of 32. There’s going to be an element of risk when you do that, because it might be a little bit easier to try to be, let’s call it, 8 of 32. But, when you’re making moves and you’re working with people to make decisions, to try to thread that needle to go, ‘Wow, if we do this,’ we may have a little bit better probability of being 1 of 32 than other teams.

And, knowing how much luck is going to play a part in that, especially in the NFL versus some of the other sports, is when you do get to the playoffs, it’s one and done.

So, a lot of times in a seven-game series, it can be a little more predictable, but in a one-and-done, there’s a lot of luck involved in how that moment goes. We could go back through SB LVI [Super Bowl 56], but point being is: did realize we were in a window for many reasons that we were as close to competing for that Number One spot than we’d ever been. And, you know what? Hey, Stan Kroenke, why would we buy the–

Les Snead: Oh, yeah. Stan Kroenke, why would we buy the LA Rams, the Super Bowls, in[?] our homes? Let’s go for it and try to be 1 of 32. [More to come, 27:23]